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	<title>Comments on: Tipping Points, Global Warming and the Balance of Nature</title>
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	<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/</link>
	<description>Reflections of a renegade naturalist</description>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-12374</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-12374</guid>
		<description>To Tim.
Nothing I wrote was intended to suggest that system could not undergo bifurcations.  However, some of what you are writing about refers to compariatvely abstract and theoretical systems.  My own experience has focused on the dynamics of ecological systems, and it is less clear for these, with the current state of knowledge, the extent to which unstable oscillations can and are likely to lead to rapid shifts.  Whether one wants to call them &quot;unpredictable&quot; when they arise from specific mathematical formulations goes beyond what I could discuss in a short op-ed piece, or even briefly on this website, but it is a topic that deserves considerable study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Tim.<br />
Nothing I wrote was intended to suggest that system could not undergo bifurcations.  However, some of what you are writing about refers to compariatvely abstract and theoretical systems.  My own experience has focused on the dynamics of ecological systems, and it is less clear for these, with the current state of knowledge, the extent to which unstable oscillations can and are likely to lead to rapid shifts.  Whether one wants to call them &#8220;unpredictable&#8221; when they arise from specific mathematical formulations goes beyond what I could discuss in a short op-ed piece, or even briefly on this website, but it is a topic that deserves considerable study.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-11902</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-11902</guid>
		<description>I agree that it is all too common to interpret environmental change in the context of multiple stable states. Something that does not bounce back within our scientific attention span is deemed to have transitioned to a new stable regime. Your example of the gradual loss of sea ice is a good one -- no sudden switch required.

What I am confused about is why you seem to insist that bifurcations are inconsistent with constantly changing systems? It is well known that systems exhibiting complex, sometimes unstable oscillations are capable of rapid unpredictable shifts. (Depending on the situation, the switching can be between attractors and in other circumstances a bifurcation occurring when a driver is gradually changed.) There seems to be little confusion about this among mathematical modelers.

I encountered your site indirectly via your WSJ article. I found that piece frankly muddled and bit misleading (although I think I&#039;m getting a clearer idea of where you&#039;re coming from after reading some of this site). The analogy between &quot;balance of nature&quot; and current climate models seems misplaced. What specifically are you proposing as an alternative to current modeling approaches?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that it is all too common to interpret environmental change in the context of multiple stable states. Something that does not bounce back within our scientific attention span is deemed to have transitioned to a new stable regime. Your example of the gradual loss of sea ice is a good one &#8212; no sudden switch required.</p>
<p>What I am confused about is why you seem to insist that bifurcations are inconsistent with constantly changing systems? It is well known that systems exhibiting complex, sometimes unstable oscillations are capable of rapid unpredictable shifts. (Depending on the situation, the switching can be between attractors and in other circumstances a bifurcation occurring when a driver is gradually changed.) There seems to be little confusion about this among mathematical modelers.</p>
<p>I encountered your site indirectly via your WSJ article. I found that piece frankly muddled and bit misleading (although I think I&#8217;m getting a clearer idea of where you&#8217;re coming from after reading some of this site). The analogy between &#8220;balance of nature&#8221; and current climate models seems misplaced. What specifically are you proposing as an alternative to current modeling approaches?</p>
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		<title>By: anonymiss</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-11301</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-11301</guid>
		<description>Blah, blah...so should we just take our chances with the environment while continuing to ignore the obvious benefits of investing in &quot;clean&quot;, renewable energy?  I&#039;m having my home weatherized and installing a solar hot water heating system to provide domestic hot water and hot water for space heating purposes.  When it&#039;s all said and done, I suspect that the reduction in electricity usage will be significant - perhaps as much as 30%-40%. Weatherizing -insulating the attic/crawlspace, caulking/weatherstripping windows and doors - will probably save us another 30% since most of our consumption is a result of lost heat due to a combination of poor insulation and air infiltration. This system will pay for itself in a matter of 3 years or so, and a 30% federal tax credit + state-specific incentives/rebates make installation very affordable, particularly when paid for as part of an EEM (Energy-Efficient Mortgage) or FHA backed home improvement loan. 
I&#039;m fortunate in having a south-facing, unshaded roof that&#039;s ideal for a solar hot water heating system.  I don&#039;t see why people are complacent in relying on a bunch of polluting, price-gouging energy monopolies to keep them from freezing/having a heatstroke when all the heat/electricity we need can be generated from those rays of sunshine beating down on our rooftops!  We ought to be marching in the streets, demanding an end to the environmental and economic injustices we&#039;ve become party to.  There used to be a time when we weren&#039;t surrounded with petroleum by-products, we didn&#039;t have to worry about the air or water being polluted with industrial wastes, and we didn&#039;t have people trying to tell us that the waste was somehow GOOD for us (just not good for plants or wildlife, as if we are somehow so fundamentally different than the rest of the animal kingdom as to be unaffected by something that is very clearly POISONOUS).

There&#039;s no excuse why every south-facing, unshaded structure shouldn&#039;t be sporting some kind of solar collector(s).  We have the technology, and we have the means to mass-produce and install it. So it makes other energy sources obsolete, who cares? Either the energy monopolies need to get on board with renewable, CLEAN energy or they go out of business.  Isn&#039;t that how the free market is supposed to work?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blah, blah&#8230;so should we just take our chances with the environment while continuing to ignore the obvious benefits of investing in &#8220;clean&#8221;, renewable energy?  I&#8217;m having my home weatherized and installing a solar hot water heating system to provide domestic hot water and hot water for space heating purposes.  When it&#8217;s all said and done, I suspect that the reduction in electricity usage will be significant &#8211; perhaps as much as 30%-40%. Weatherizing -insulating the attic/crawlspace, caulking/weatherstripping windows and doors &#8211; will probably save us another 30% since most of our consumption is a result of lost heat due to a combination of poor insulation and air infiltration. This system will pay for itself in a matter of 3 years or so, and a 30% federal tax credit + state-specific incentives/rebates make installation very affordable, particularly when paid for as part of an EEM (Energy-Efficient Mortgage) or FHA backed home improvement loan.<br />
I&#8217;m fortunate in having a south-facing, unshaded roof that&#8217;s ideal for a solar hot water heating system.  I don&#8217;t see why people are complacent in relying on a bunch of polluting, price-gouging energy monopolies to keep them from freezing/having a heatstroke when all the heat/electricity we need can be generated from those rays of sunshine beating down on our rooftops!  We ought to be marching in the streets, demanding an end to the environmental and economic injustices we&#8217;ve become party to.  There used to be a time when we weren&#8217;t surrounded with petroleum by-products, we didn&#8217;t have to worry about the air or water being polluted with industrial wastes, and we didn&#8217;t have people trying to tell us that the waste was somehow GOOD for us (just not good for plants or wildlife, as if we are somehow so fundamentally different than the rest of the animal kingdom as to be unaffected by something that is very clearly POISONOUS).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no excuse why every south-facing, unshaded structure shouldn&#8217;t be sporting some kind of solar collector(s).  We have the technology, and we have the means to mass-produce and install it. So it makes other energy sources obsolete, who cares? Either the energy monopolies need to get on board with renewable, CLEAN energy or they go out of business.  Isn&#8217;t that how the free market is supposed to work?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-4339</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-4339</guid>
		<description>Part of the difficulty this writer is having is that he is using “tipping points” in a vague and general way to mean just a large change.  Yes, large changes do happen, and if we confine our discussion to that term, our ability to think about what may be happening to the environment will improve.  “Tipping points” is being used to mean an abrupt, sudden shift from one set of conditions to another, far different set of conditions, not just to refer to a range limit or just to any change.  If you would read an article in the March 27, 2009 edition of Science magazine (Richard Kerr &quot;Arctic Summer Sea Ice Could Vanish Soon But Not Suddenly.&quot; Science 323: 1655.), you can see the difference. That article states that a review of the forecasts by a number of global climate model leads to a projection that “summer ice will most likely disappear around 2037. But none of the select models predicts a tipping point—a sudden jump to an ice-free summer.”
	
Saying that something is going to undergo a “tipping point” makes things sound much worse than simply saying that things are going to change, and the use taints a discussion in a way that is unscientific and inappropriate in scientific papers about natural ecological systems, and leads us away from, rather than toward, better understanding.

Also, the term “tipping point” is used  in a more specific way to mean a sudden shift from one steady-state to some other state-steady condition of the entire system.  Since populations, species, ecosystems, and the entire biosphere are non-steady-state systems, this way of thinking just doesn’t fit.  Non-steady-state systems are always changing and do not have neat, specific fixed conditions.  

People who had difficulty with what I have written about tipping points here, where I have to be very brief, would be best helped if they take the time to read my book Discordant Harmonies, where I took the time, and much effort, to explain the nature of nature as best understood by modern science, and to explore the history of the idea, especially the idea of nature in steady state.  These ideas are not the easiest or simplest, and can’t be explained in a slogan or phrase.  But if we really want to solve environmental problems, we have to understand how nature really works, and that takes time and effort.  The term “tipping points” is being used in a way that suggests the answers are simple, which they are not.

Other essays on my website pursue these ideas in other ways, and could help those of you who are having trouble understanding the concepts.

Over the next weeks, I will be adding more material to this website to go deeper into the ideas and expand upon them.  I hope readers like this one will join me in that pursuit.  I’ve spent 4 decades trying to understand nature and help solve environmental problems, and I can tell you that the path is difficult, but fascinating, and also important.

Dan Botkin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the difficulty this writer is having is that he is using “tipping points” in a vague and general way to mean just a large change.  Yes, large changes do happen, and if we confine our discussion to that term, our ability to think about what may be happening to the environment will improve.  “Tipping points” is being used to mean an abrupt, sudden shift from one set of conditions to another, far different set of conditions, not just to refer to a range limit or just to any change.  If you would read an article in the March 27, 2009 edition of Science magazine (Richard Kerr &#8220;Arctic Summer Sea Ice Could Vanish Soon But Not Suddenly.&#8221; Science 323: 1655.), you can see the difference. That article states that a review of the forecasts by a number of global climate model leads to a projection that “summer ice will most likely disappear around 2037. But none of the select models predicts a tipping point—a sudden jump to an ice-free summer.”</p>
<p>Saying that something is going to undergo a “tipping point” makes things sound much worse than simply saying that things are going to change, and the use taints a discussion in a way that is unscientific and inappropriate in scientific papers about natural ecological systems, and leads us away from, rather than toward, better understanding.</p>
<p>Also, the term “tipping point” is used  in a more specific way to mean a sudden shift from one steady-state to some other state-steady condition of the entire system.  Since populations, species, ecosystems, and the entire biosphere are non-steady-state systems, this way of thinking just doesn’t fit.  Non-steady-state systems are always changing and do not have neat, specific fixed conditions.  </p>
<p>People who had difficulty with what I have written about tipping points here, where I have to be very brief, would be best helped if they take the time to read my book Discordant Harmonies, where I took the time, and much effort, to explain the nature of nature as best understood by modern science, and to explore the history of the idea, especially the idea of nature in steady state.  These ideas are not the easiest or simplest, and can’t be explained in a slogan or phrase.  But if we really want to solve environmental problems, we have to understand how nature really works, and that takes time and effort.  The term “tipping points” is being used in a way that suggests the answers are simple, which they are not.</p>
<p>Other essays on my website pursue these ideas in other ways, and could help those of you who are having trouble understanding the concepts.</p>
<p>Over the next weeks, I will be adding more material to this website to go deeper into the ideas and expand upon them.  I hope readers like this one will join me in that pursuit.  I’ve spent 4 decades trying to understand nature and help solve environmental problems, and I can tell you that the path is difficult, but fascinating, and also important.</p>
<p>Dan Botkin</p>
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		<title>By: Anthropogenic Solar Chaos</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-4337</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthropogenic Solar Chaos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-4337</guid>
		<description>deep solar minimum
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum.htm
A 50-year low in solar wind pressure:
A 55-year low in solar radio emissions:
A 12-year low in solar “irradiance”:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deep solar minimum<br />
<a href="http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum.htm" rel="nofollow">http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum.htm</a><br />
A 50-year low in solar wind pressure:<br />
A 55-year low in solar radio emissions:<br />
A 12-year low in solar “irradiance”:</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Studen</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-4329</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Studen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-4329</guid>
		<description>I do not understand the argument of this article.

Although &quot;Life&quot; may be highly resilient, individual species are much less so, and individual organisms even less so. Take human life for example. We require an environment within a certain temperature range (natural or artificially maintained), a steady supply of food and water, oxygen to breathe, and protection from predation and disease. If any of these are disrupted sufficiently from a range (using suitable measures), we die. If they are disrupted for enough of us, the whole species dies. These are real thresholds, and they hold for all species. Logically, there is also a threshold for the possible extinction of all life on Earth; say from a large asteroid impact or the eventual death of the sun.

The whooping crane example just proves the point that environments have to be carefully regulated, by natural processes or human intervention, in order to maintain species with fairly specific requirements.

Here are a few examples from possible global warming scenarios. If sea levels rise and tropical storms become more fierce, millions will die in Bangladesh. For them, this is a pretty big tipping point. More generally, if the climate warms and dries to the point where we can&#039;t produce enough food for support human populations, millions more may die, including us. Ocean warming and increasing acidity are threatening the ecosystems of coral reefs, pelagic micro-organisms, and food chains. Contrary to the authors, I look ahead and see many cliffs on the near and far horizon.

There&#039;s obviously some sophisticated math and ecology behind the author&#039;s work, and the explanation is clear for ecosysems that vary within a range that&#039;s compatible with the requirements of life for specific organisms. Isn&#039;t the argument all about human-induced changes that may be large enough to disrupt those requirements?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not understand the argument of this article.</p>
<p>Although &#8220;Life&#8221; may be highly resilient, individual species are much less so, and individual organisms even less so. Take human life for example. We require an environment within a certain temperature range (natural or artificially maintained), a steady supply of food and water, oxygen to breathe, and protection from predation and disease. If any of these are disrupted sufficiently from a range (using suitable measures), we die. If they are disrupted for enough of us, the whole species dies. These are real thresholds, and they hold for all species. Logically, there is also a threshold for the possible extinction of all life on Earth; say from a large asteroid impact or the eventual death of the sun.</p>
<p>The whooping crane example just proves the point that environments have to be carefully regulated, by natural processes or human intervention, in order to maintain species with fairly specific requirements.</p>
<p>Here are a few examples from possible global warming scenarios. If sea levels rise and tropical storms become more fierce, millions will die in Bangladesh. For them, this is a pretty big tipping point. More generally, if the climate warms and dries to the point where we can&#8217;t produce enough food for support human populations, millions more may die, including us. Ocean warming and increasing acidity are threatening the ecosystems of coral reefs, pelagic micro-organisms, and food chains. Contrary to the authors, I look ahead and see many cliffs on the near and far horizon.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s obviously some sophisticated math and ecology behind the author&#8217;s work, and the explanation is clear for ecosysems that vary within a range that&#8217;s compatible with the requirements of life for specific organisms. Isn&#8217;t the argument all about human-induced changes that may be large enough to disrupt those requirements?</p>
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		<title>By: &#8216;Tipping Points&#8217; and the Climate Challenge - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com</title>
		<link>http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2009/03/31/tipping-points-global-warming-and-the-balance-of-nature/comment-page-1/#comment-4312</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8216;Tipping Points&#8217; and the Climate Challenge - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielbbotkin.com/?p=176#comment-4312</guid>
		<description>[...] But what tipping points are well established and which ones remain what Stephen W. Pacala of Princeton University has called &#8220;the monsters behind the door&#8221;? I have a piece in the Week in Review section exploring these concerns. Given the limits on space in print, I thought it worthwhile to add some additional voices here and encourage further discussion. The bottom line? A growing effort to clarify such risks has yielded what amounts to the same message climate experts have been conveying for more than two decades: More emissions of greenhouse gases raise the odds of trouble. The conclusion is similar to that in the &#8220;burning embers&#8221; diagrams from the third Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report and a recent paper. [UPDATE, 3/31: Daniel Botkin, the ecologist and author, has weighed in with an exploration of tipping points in ecosystems.] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But what tipping points are well established and which ones remain what Stephen W. Pacala of Princeton University has called &#8220;the monsters behind the door&#8221;? I have a piece in the Week in Review section exploring these concerns. Given the limits on space in print, I thought it worthwhile to add some additional voices here and encourage further discussion. The bottom line? A growing effort to clarify such risks has yielded what amounts to the same message climate experts have been conveying for more than two decades: More emissions of greenhouse gases raise the odds of trouble. The conclusion is similar to that in the &#8220;burning embers&#8221; diagrams from the third Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report and a recent paper. [UPDATE, 3/31: Daniel Botkin, the ecologist and author, has weighed in with an exploration of tipping points in ecosystems.] [...]</p>
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